Bug 31256

Summary: Circ rules batch modification
Product: Koha Reporter: Christopher Brannon <cbrannon>
Component: CirculationAssignee: Bugs List <koha-bugs>
Status: NEW --- QA Contact: Testopia <testopia>
Severity: enhancement    
Priority: P5 - low CC: caroline.cyr-la-rose, george, gmcharlt, kyle.m.hall, madamyk
Version: master   
Hardware: All   
OS: All   
Change sponsored?: --- Patch complexity: ---
Documentation contact: Documentation submission:
Text to go in the release notes:
Version(s) released in:

Description Christopher Brannon 2022-07-28 17:23:43 UTC
Wouldn't it be nice if you could batch modify rules?  Like, I have to set a hard due date for schools each year.  Instead of modify each rule individually, it would be great if I could specify all libraries, or specific ones, all rules under that or specific ones, and what I would change.

There are times when we have to change the fines to everything, or change the holds to many rules, etc.  This would make this job so much easier.
Comment 1 Katrin Fischer 2022-07-30 13:08:23 UTC
Yes, it would be nice :)
Comment 2 George Williams (NEKLS) 2022-09-23 19:24:22 UTC
Circ rules batch modification would be a huge help.
Comment 3 Michael Adamyk 2022-09-23 19:31:37 UTC
Absolutely! This would make life for consortiums much easier.
Comment 4 George Williams (NEKLS) 2022-09-23 19:33:56 UTC
Circ rules batch modification would be a huge help.
Comment 5 Caroline Cyr La Rose 2023-04-21 14:04:52 UTC
Hi all, it's not an overall solution to batch edit rules (I honestly have no idea what that would look like or what it would entail), but a lot of schools might find this plugin useful to change hard due dates in batch https://inlibro.com/en/koha-plugins/#rule-hard-due-date . It's not perfect, as few plugins are imo, but a usable alternative to manually changing hard due dates until it's possible to batch edit rule in the koha interface.
Comment 6 Christopher Brannon 2023-04-21 20:43:52 UTC
(In reply to Caroline Cyr La Rose from comment #5)
> Hi all, it's not an overall solution to batch edit rules (I honestly have no
> idea what that would look like or what it would entail), but a lot of
> schools might find this plugin useful to change hard due dates in batch
> https://inlibro.com/en/koha-plugins/#rule-hard-due-date . It's not perfect,
> as few plugins are imo, but a usable alternative to manually changing hard
> due dates until it's possible to batch edit rule in the koha interface.

Unfortunately, this is not a practical solution.  This would have us changing the due dates after the checkout, which means A) we would constantly have to check back and update checkouts, and B) change the due date from something other than what was given at time of checkout, and C) possibly have to notify patrons of the change.

If we were going to do this, we might as well just manually change the due date at the time of checkout, and there are obvious reasons why we are not suggesting that.

It is preferable to have this dealt with via the rules, before the items are checked out.
Comment 7 Caroline Cyr La Rose 2023-04-21 20:47:44 UTC
(In reply to Christopher Brannon from comment #6)
> (In reply to Caroline Cyr La Rose from comment #5)
> > Hi all, it's not an overall solution to batch edit rules (I honestly have no
> > idea what that would look like or what it would entail), but a lot of
> > schools might find this plugin useful to change hard due dates in batch
> > https://inlibro.com/en/koha-plugins/#rule-hard-due-date . It's not perfect,
> > as few plugins are imo, but a usable alternative to manually changing hard
> > due dates until it's possible to batch edit rule in the koha interface.
> 
> Unfortunately, this is not a practical solution.  This would have us
> changing the due dates after the checkout, which means A) we would
> constantly have to check back and update checkouts, and B) change the due
> date from something other than what was given at time of checkout, and C)
> possibly have to notify patrons of the change.
> 
> If we were going to do this, we might as well just manually change the due
> date at the time of checkout, and there are obvious reasons why we are not
> suggesting that.
> 
> It is preferable to have this dealt with via the rules, before the items are
> checked out.

I'm not sure what you mean. This plugin changes the rules not the actual checkouts.
Comment 8 Christopher Brannon 2023-04-21 21:14:44 UTC
(In reply to Caroline Cyr La Rose from comment #7)

> 
> I'm not sure what you mean. This plugin changes the rules not the actual
> checkouts.

Sorry!  Please ignore.  My mind was thinking of another due date plugin.  This plugin DOES make more sense.  Still, I am looking forward to the day that Koha just has some of this basic functionality built in.
Comment 9 Caroline Cyr La Rose 2023-04-21 21:23:45 UTC
(In reply to Christopher Brannon from comment #8)
> (In reply to Caroline Cyr La Rose from comment #7)
> 
> > 
> > I'm not sure what you mean. This plugin changes the rules not the actual
> > checkouts.
> 
> Sorry!  Please ignore.  My mind was thinking of another due date plugin. 
> This plugin DOES make more sense.  Still, I am looking forward to the day
> that Koha just has some of this basic functionality built in.

No problem. I agree that it should be built in. But I thought this could be an alternative while the functionality is being developped (if/when it is taken up). Changing rules one by one is a pain. Depending on the type of library, you might not need to do it often, but schools that use hard due dates must do it every term or school year. If you only have a couple of rules, it's manageable, but as soon as you have more, it can get very tedious.
Comment 10 Christopher Brannon 2023-04-21 22:52:09 UTC
(In reply to Caroline Cyr La Rose from comment #5)
> Hi all, it's not an overall solution to batch edit rules (I honestly have no
> idea what that would look like or what it would entail), but a lot of
> schools might find this plugin useful to change hard due dates in batch
> https://inlibro.com/en/koha-plugins/#rule-hard-due-date . It's not perfect,
> as few plugins are imo, but a usable alternative to manually changing hard
> due dates until it's possible to batch edit rule in the koha interface.

I just looked at this plugin, and it looks like it will affect ALL branches.  I am not seeing an option to only make changes to specific branches.  Also, it affects items already in circulation.  Again, I don't want to touch stuff that was already given a due date.  So, it does not look like we can even use this as a work around.
Comment 11 Caroline Cyr La Rose 2023-04-24 15:04:40 UTC
(In reply to Christopher Brannon from comment #10)
> (In reply to Caroline Cyr La Rose from comment #5)
> > Hi all, it's not an overall solution to batch edit rules (I honestly have no
> > idea what that would look like or what it would entail), but a lot of
> > schools might find this plugin useful to change hard due dates in batch
> > https://inlibro.com/en/koha-plugins/#rule-hard-due-date . It's not perfect,
> > as few plugins are imo, but a usable alternative to manually changing hard
> > due dates until it's possible to batch edit rule in the koha interface.
> 
> I just looked at this plugin, and it looks like it will affect ALL branches.
> I am not seeing an option to only make changes to specific branches.  Also,
> it affects items already in circulation.  Again, I don't want to touch stuff
> that was already given a due date.  So, it does not look like we can even
> use this as a work around.

Is it possible we're not talking about the same plugin? I'm talking about the one called Rule Hard Due Date. (We have another one called Change Due Date that affects checkouts that we had created before the tool was added to Koha during the pandemic and that we still keep it around because the one in Koha is missing some functionality that we had.) I don't want to hijack this bug report to discuss the plugin, but I can confirm it can only affect specific branches if you specify the branch in the form (you can specify library, itemtype and/or patron category and it will only affect the rules that meet those criteria). And it does not affect current checkouts. 
Our school libraries have been using this for many years, and as far as I know it meets their need. Feel free to email me or the mailing list to further discuss the plugin or concerns about it.  :)
Comment 12 Christopher Brannon 2023-04-24 18:13:44 UTC
(In reply to Caroline Cyr La Rose from comment #11)
> 
> Is it possible we're not talking about the same plugin? I'm talking about
> the one called Rule Hard Due Date. (We have another one called Change Due
> Date that affects checkouts that we had created before the tool was added to
> Koha during the pandemic and that we still keep it around because the one in
> Koha is missing some functionality that we had.) I don't want to hijack this
> bug report to discuss the plugin, but I can confirm it can only affect
> specific branches if you specify the branch in the form (you can specify
> library, itemtype and/or patron category and it will only affect the rules
> that meet those criteria). And it does not affect current checkouts. 
> Our school libraries have been using this for many years, and as far as I
> know it meets their need. Feel free to email me or the mailing list to
> further discuss the plugin or concerns about it.  :)

This is the only one I see when I search in the plugin tools:

koha-plugin-rolling-hard-due-dates	Koha tool plugin to batch modify hard due date rules and hard due dates on existing checkouts

This doesn't work for us.  If there is another plugin, it is not available in the library.  It may be that I have to find it in github or whatever and upload it manually?