Bug 11285 - Vocabulary disambiguation
Summary: Vocabulary disambiguation
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: Koha
Classification: Unclassified
Component: I18N/L10N (show other bugs)
Version: master
Hardware: All All
: P5 - low normal (vote)
Assignee: Bugs List
QA Contact: Testopia
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2013-11-22 07:53 UTC by Paul Poulain
Modified: 2017-11-22 14:44 UTC (History)
10 users (show)

See Also:
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Patch complexity: ---
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Attachments
intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/patron_lists/list.tt (7.25 KB, text/html)
2014-09-05 17:33 UTC, Héctor Eduardo Castro Avalos
Details
intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/members/member.tt (18.63 KB, text/html)
2014-09-05 17:42 UTC, Héctor Eduardo Castro Avalos
Details
intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/serials/member-search.tt (3.32 KB, text/html)
2014-09-05 17:43 UTC, Héctor Eduardo Castro Avalos
Details
intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/patroncards/members-search.tt (5.70 KB, text/html)
2014-09-05 17:43 UTC, Héctor Eduardo Castro Avalos
Details

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Description Paul Poulain 2013-11-22 07:53:21 UTC
The following words are used in different contexts. A different word should be used for each, for translation purposes:
 * card (card view, patron card)
 * term (meaning "terminology" and as a "course term")
Comment 1 Paul Poulain 2013-11-22 13:32:18 UTC
Tomas Cohen also suggested =
* 'items' on a list
* 'items' for holdings

Katrin Fischer also suggested =
 * subject in cataloguing
 * subject in emails
Comment 2 Nicole C. Engard 2013-12-06 22:14:22 UTC
* Card View could be ISBD view since that's what it is.

* Course Term I can't think of another way to say that ... but if I saw some sentences I might have a way to replace Term as in terminology

* Items for holdings could be changes to 'Holdings' but that might be a HUGE deal

* And as for Subject I'm at a loss .. They are subject headings in cataloging and it's the email subject so I can't think of any other way to do that.
Comment 3 paxed 2014-01-30 10:49:59 UTC
"m- Mixed" in Marc21 007 builder.

It's used in two different meanings for electronic resources: 007/03 (color) and 007/11 (antecedent/source). For color it means a mix of color and B&W, for source it means the source is of mixed type.
Comment 4 paxed 2014-02-05 09:42:51 UTC
Some terms really should be defined better: "list", "cart", "basket", "basket group"
Comment 5 paxed 2014-02-17 06:17:17 UTC
"From" - is that "Starting from"? or "Changed from this text"?

(members-update uses it in the "text is changed from this" meaning, and everywhere else it's used in "starting from this" meaning)
Comment 6 paxed 2014-02-17 08:01:15 UTC
"Title" - is this the title of a book? (usually it is) ...or does it mean the name of a holiday? (as it is in the holidays calendar)
Comment 7 paxed 2014-05-09 06:35:47 UTC
(In reply to paxed from comment #5)
> "From" - is that "Starting from"? or "Changed from this text"?
> 
> (members-update uses it in the "text is changed from this" meaning, and
> everywhere else it's used in "starting from this" meaning)

members-update also has "To", meaning "Changed to this text", instead of a "end of range", as it means everywhere else.
Comment 8 Katrin Fischer 2014-05-18 11:02:18 UTC
"to" and "from" meaning a time range or describing a change is also a problem in German. Right now for example the screen for managing address changes in German makes not much sense, but changing the translations there will break it elsewhere...
Comment 9 paxed 2014-05-19 03:46:09 UTC
"Checked" - used in both suggestions and z3950 server list. In the z39.50 context, it means "chosen for search by default", IIRC, and in the suggestions it means the suggestion was "verified"
Comment 10 Héctor Eduardo Castro Avalos 2014-09-05 17:33:27 UTC
Created attachment 31418 [details]
intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/patron_lists/list.tt
Comment 11 Héctor Eduardo Castro Avalos 2014-09-05 17:35:21 UTC
There are many files involving this change of terminology/vocabulary, for example only with the "Card" word.

File in Pootle program is: xx-XX-i-staff-t-prog-v-3006000.po
The entry is "Card"

Locations:
Applying Engard's suggestion, Card view to ISBD view. (see comment 2)

ISBD view
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/cataloguing/z3950_search.tt:162
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/cataloguing/z3950_search.tt:177
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/cataloguing/addbooks.tt:150
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/cataloguing/addbooks.tt:193
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/acqui/z3950_search.tt:172
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/acqui/addorderiso2709.tt:196
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/acqui/parcel.tt:289
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/acqui/parcel.tt:437

Patron card
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/serials/member-search.tt:55
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/patron_lists/list.tt:142
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/members/member.tt:165
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/patroncards/members-search.tt:77


I only attach the files for "Patron card"
Comment 12 Héctor Eduardo Castro Avalos 2014-09-05 17:42:39 UTC
Created attachment 31419 [details]
intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/members/member.tt
Comment 13 Héctor Eduardo Castro Avalos 2014-09-05 17:43:20 UTC
Created attachment 31420 [details]
intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/serials/member-search.tt
Comment 14 Héctor Eduardo Castro Avalos 2014-09-05 17:43:57 UTC
Created attachment 31421 [details]
intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/patroncards/members-search.tt
Comment 15 Marc Véron 2014-09-07 09:57:29 UTC
(In reply to paxed from comment #9)
> "Checked" - used in both suggestions and z3950 server list. In the z39.50
> context, it means "chosen for search by default", IIRC, and in the
> suggestions it means the suggestion was "verified"

Confirmed....
...and in German, that leads to "Geprüft" in z3950 server list (wrong!), should be something like "Standardsuche".
For suggestions, "Geprüft" would be OK.

It is impossible to resolve this in translations without changing the original wording.

See
koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/admin/z3950servers.tt
koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/suggestion/suggestion.tt
Comment 16 Marc Véron 2014-09-07 17:12:59 UTC
See Bug 12882 for disambiguation of word "Checked" in Z39.50 server administration.
Comment 17 Marc Véron 2014-09-10 05:58:30 UTC
From IRC  http://irc.koha-community.org/koha/2014-09-09#i_1565014

Disambiguation of word "term"

Cait: could we differentiate term too? we ran into this a few days ago - term (like a search term) and term (like a time span in course reserves) - it's pretty confusing
Comment 18 Marc Véron 2014-09-10 06:55:06 UTC
(In reply to Marc Véron from comment #17)
> From IRC  http://irc.koha-community.org/koha/2014-09-09#i_1565014
> 
> Disambiguation of word "term"
> 
> Cait: could we differentiate term too? we ran into this a few days ago -
> term (like a search term) and term (like a time span in course reserves) -
> it's pretty confusing

I found:

"term-time" for time span in course reserves

http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/dings.cgi?lang=de&service=deen&opterrors=0&optpro=0&query=term+time

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/term-time

"search term" for German "Suchbegriff", French "Terme de recherche"
http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/deutsch-englisch/Suchbegriff.html
Comment 19 Marc Véron 2014-09-10 12:36:10 UTC
Comments from 12882:

M. de Rooy: Note btw that changing strings because of translation limitations is imo not really ideal. It is a workaround; we probably should make changes to the translation process, which is of course much harder..

paxed: msgctxt

MV: See
https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_node/Contexts.html
(...)
Contexts can be added to strings to be translated. A context dependent translation lookup is when a translation for a given string is searched, that is limited to a given context. The translation for the same string in a different context can be different. The different translations of the same string in different contexts can be stored in the in the same MO file, and can be edited by the translator in the same PO file. 
(...)
const char *pgettext (const char *msgctxt, const char *msgid);
(...)
pgettext ("Menu|File|", "Open")
(...)
pgettext ("Menu|Printer|", "Open")

Sounds interesting.
Comment 20 Héctor Eduardo Castro Avalos 2014-09-10 16:02:56 UTC
(In reply to Marc Véron from comment #19)
> Comments from 12882:
> 
> M. de Rooy: Note btw that changing strings because of translation
> limitations is imo not really ideal. It is a workaround; we probably should
> make changes to the translation process, which is of course much harder..
> 
> paxed: msgctxt
> 
> MV: See
> https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_node/Contexts.html
> (...)
> Contexts can be added to strings to be translated. A context dependent
> translation lookup is when a translation for a given string is searched,
> that is limited to a given context. The translation for the same string in a
> different context can be different. The different translations of the same
> string in different contexts can be stored in the in the same MO file, and
> can be edited by the translator in the same PO file. 
> (...)
> const char *pgettext (const char *msgctxt, const char *msgid);
> (...)
> pgettext ("Menu|File|", "Open")
> (...)
> pgettext ("Menu|Printer|", "Open")
> 
> Sounds interesting.

Hi, Marc
Sounds good your solution, because it's annoying for users to see bad translations. It's like you're not doing well done your work. Confirm us when implementing GNU gettext
Comment 21 Katrin Fischer 2015-04-02 09:27:43 UTC
Running into the problem with "term" again - which has 2 different meanings in German. Any progress on this?
Comment 22 Héctor Eduardo Castro Avalos 2015-04-07 00:44:21 UTC
(In reply to Katrin Fischer from comment #21)
> Running into the problem with "term" again - which has 2 different meanings
> in German. Any progress on this?

translate script with msgctxt must do something like:

#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/serials/member-search.tt:55
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/patron_lists/list.tt:142
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/members/member.tt:165
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/patroncards/members-search.tt:77
msgctxt "Patron card"
msgid "Card"
msgstr ""
⁠
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/cataloguing/z3950_search.tt:162
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/cataloguing/z3950_search.tt:177
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/cataloguing/addbooks.tt:150
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/cataloguing/addbooks.tt:193
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/acqui/z3950_search.tt:172
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/acqui/addorderiso2709.tt:196
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/acqui/parcel.tt:289
#: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/acqui/parcel.tt:437
msgctxt "ISBD Card"
msgid "Card"
msgstr ""

All the files containing the word "Card" or "Term" must have useful comments like <!--Patron card--> and then the script must recognize the Disambiguation of contexts.

I will try to study a case by case basis, but first i need to know how these scripts work

Regards
Comment 23 Josef Moravec 2016-03-02 11:52:50 UTC
I faced up another ambigous term:

"Order" in acquisition
"Order" as sort order - modification templates (and maybe more)
Comment 24 Barton Chittenden 2017-01-19 16:18:28 UTC
(In reply to paxed from comment #6)
> "Title" - is this the title of a book? (usually it is) ...or does it mean
> the name of a holiday? (as it is in the holidays calendar)

There's also a title in the borrowers table -- as in "Mr.", "Mrs.", "Dr." etc. I don't think that this is likely to cause problems with translation; the context is entirely different, but it's annoying when you join borrowers to a query that already has "title" in the select statement, and suddenly need to qualify that...
Comment 25 Katrin Fischer 2017-01-19 17:46:07 UTC
> (In reply to paxed from comment #6)
> > "Title" - is this the title of a book? (usually it is) ...or does it mean
> > the name of a holiday? (as it is in the holidays calendar)
> 
> There's also a title in the borrowers table -- as in "Mr.", "Mrs.", "Dr."
> etc. I don't think that this is likely to cause problems with translation;
> the context is entirely different, but it's annoying when you join borrowers
> to a query that already has "title" in the select statement, and suddenly
> need to qualify that...

The problem is, that there is no context in translation. A string like "Title: " could mean all 3 things, but we'd like to translate it differently. This is currently not possible - you can only have one translation for identical strings.
Comment 26 Paul Poulain 2017-01-20 10:38:36 UTC
(In reply to Barton Chittenden from comment #24)
> (In reply to paxed from comment #6)
> > "Title" - is this the title of a book? (usually it is) ...or does it mean
> > the name of a holiday? (as it is in the holidays calendar)
> 
> There's also a title in the borrowers table -- as in "Mr.", "Mrs.", "Dr."
> etc. I don't think that this is likely to cause problems with translation;
> the context is entirely different, but it's annoying when you join borrowers
> to a query that already has "title" in the select statement, and suddenly
> need to qualify that...

In french we use the word "civilité". google translate says it can be translated to "civility". Is it a valid possibility ?
Comment 27 Barton Chittenden 2017-01-23 14:35:20 UTC
(In reply to Paul Poulain from comment #26)
> (In reply to Barton Chittenden from comment #24)

> > There's also a title in the borrowers table -- as in "Mr.", "Mrs.", "Dr."
> > etc. I don't think that this is likely to cause problems with translation;
> > the context is entirely different, but it's annoying when you join borrowers
> > to a query that already has "title" in the select statement, and suddenly
> > need to qualify that...
> 
> In french we use the word "civilité". google translate says it can be
> translated to "civility". Is it a valid possibility ?

Unfortunately that doesn't work in English, but 'appelation' or 'honorific' might work (I feel like there's another common term besides title... it's on the tip of my tongue, but I can't seem to find it).
Comment 28 Julian Maurice 2017-04-04 12:56:28 UTC
(In reply to Katrin Fischer from comment #25)
> The problem is, that there is no context in translation. A string like
> "Title: " could mean all 3 things, but we'd like to translate it
> differently. This is currently not possible - you can only have one
> translation for identical strings.

Please have a look at bug 15395. It allows to attach context to a string, so the same string can be translated in different ways, depending on the context.
Comment 29 Marc Véron 2017-04-19 12:20:58 UTC
(In reply to Julian Maurice from comment #28)
> (In reply to Katrin Fischer from comment #25)
> > The problem is, that there is no context in translation. A string like
> > "Title: " could mean all 3 things, but we'd like to translate it
> > differently. This is currently not possible - you can only have one
> > translation for identical strings.
> 
> Please have a look at bug 15395. It allows to attach context to a string, so
> the same string can be translated in different ways, depending on the
> context.

Just tested with Bug 15395, works great!

See https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15395#c49