The following words are used in different contexts. A different word should be used for each, for translation purposes: * card (card view, patron card) * term (meaning "terminology" and as a "course term")
Tomas Cohen also suggested = * 'items' on a list * 'items' for holdings Katrin Fischer also suggested = * subject in cataloguing * subject in emails
* Card View could be ISBD view since that's what it is. * Course Term I can't think of another way to say that ... but if I saw some sentences I might have a way to replace Term as in terminology * Items for holdings could be changes to 'Holdings' but that might be a HUGE deal * And as for Subject I'm at a loss .. They are subject headings in cataloging and it's the email subject so I can't think of any other way to do that.
"m- Mixed" in Marc21 007 builder. It's used in two different meanings for electronic resources: 007/03 (color) and 007/11 (antecedent/source). For color it means a mix of color and B&W, for source it means the source is of mixed type.
Some terms really should be defined better: "list", "cart", "basket", "basket group"
"From" - is that "Starting from"? or "Changed from this text"? (members-update uses it in the "text is changed from this" meaning, and everywhere else it's used in "starting from this" meaning)
"Title" - is this the title of a book? (usually it is) ...or does it mean the name of a holiday? (as it is in the holidays calendar)
(In reply to paxed from comment #5) > "From" - is that "Starting from"? or "Changed from this text"? > > (members-update uses it in the "text is changed from this" meaning, and > everywhere else it's used in "starting from this" meaning) members-update also has "To", meaning "Changed to this text", instead of a "end of range", as it means everywhere else.
"to" and "from" meaning a time range or describing a change is also a problem in German. Right now for example the screen for managing address changes in German makes not much sense, but changing the translations there will break it elsewhere...
"Checked" - used in both suggestions and z3950 server list. In the z39.50 context, it means "chosen for search by default", IIRC, and in the suggestions it means the suggestion was "verified"
Created attachment 31418 [details] intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/patron_lists/list.tt
There are many files involving this change of terminology/vocabulary, for example only with the "Card" word. File in Pootle program is: xx-XX-i-staff-t-prog-v-3006000.po The entry is "Card" Locations: Applying Engard's suggestion, Card view to ISBD view. (see comment 2) ISBD view #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/cataloguing/z3950_search.tt:162 #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/cataloguing/z3950_search.tt:177 #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/cataloguing/addbooks.tt:150 #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/cataloguing/addbooks.tt:193 #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/acqui/z3950_search.tt:172 #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/acqui/addorderiso2709.tt:196 #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/acqui/parcel.tt:289 #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/acqui/parcel.tt:437 Patron card #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/serials/member-search.tt:55 #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/patron_lists/list.tt:142 #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/members/member.tt:165 #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/patroncards/members-search.tt:77 I only attach the files for "Patron card"
Created attachment 31419 [details] intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/members/member.tt
Created attachment 31420 [details] intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/serials/member-search.tt
Created attachment 31421 [details] intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/patroncards/members-search.tt
(In reply to paxed from comment #9) > "Checked" - used in both suggestions and z3950 server list. In the z39.50 > context, it means "chosen for search by default", IIRC, and in the > suggestions it means the suggestion was "verified" Confirmed.... ...and in German, that leads to "Geprüft" in z3950 server list (wrong!), should be something like "Standardsuche". For suggestions, "Geprüft" would be OK. It is impossible to resolve this in translations without changing the original wording. See koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/admin/z3950servers.tt koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/suggestion/suggestion.tt
See Bug 12882 for disambiguation of word "Checked" in Z39.50 server administration.
From IRC http://irc.koha-community.org/koha/2014-09-09#i_1565014 Disambiguation of word "term" Cait: could we differentiate term too? we ran into this a few days ago - term (like a search term) and term (like a time span in course reserves) - it's pretty confusing
(In reply to Marc Véron from comment #17) > From IRC http://irc.koha-community.org/koha/2014-09-09#i_1565014 > > Disambiguation of word "term" > > Cait: could we differentiate term too? we ran into this a few days ago - > term (like a search term) and term (like a time span in course reserves) - > it's pretty confusing I found: "term-time" for time span in course reserves http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/dings.cgi?lang=de&service=deen&opterrors=0&optpro=0&query=term+time http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/term-time "search term" for German "Suchbegriff", French "Terme de recherche" http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/deutsch-englisch/Suchbegriff.html
Comments from 12882: M. de Rooy: Note btw that changing strings because of translation limitations is imo not really ideal. It is a workaround; we probably should make changes to the translation process, which is of course much harder.. paxed: msgctxt MV: See https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_node/Contexts.html (...) Contexts can be added to strings to be translated. A context dependent translation lookup is when a translation for a given string is searched, that is limited to a given context. The translation for the same string in a different context can be different. The different translations of the same string in different contexts can be stored in the in the same MO file, and can be edited by the translator in the same PO file. (...) const char *pgettext (const char *msgctxt, const char *msgid); (...) pgettext ("Menu|File|", "Open") (...) pgettext ("Menu|Printer|", "Open") Sounds interesting.
(In reply to Marc Véron from comment #19) > Comments from 12882: > > M. de Rooy: Note btw that changing strings because of translation > limitations is imo not really ideal. It is a workaround; we probably should > make changes to the translation process, which is of course much harder.. > > paxed: msgctxt > > MV: See > https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_node/Contexts.html > (...) > Contexts can be added to strings to be translated. A context dependent > translation lookup is when a translation for a given string is searched, > that is limited to a given context. The translation for the same string in a > different context can be different. The different translations of the same > string in different contexts can be stored in the in the same MO file, and > can be edited by the translator in the same PO file. > (...) > const char *pgettext (const char *msgctxt, const char *msgid); > (...) > pgettext ("Menu|File|", "Open") > (...) > pgettext ("Menu|Printer|", "Open") > > Sounds interesting. Hi, Marc Sounds good your solution, because it's annoying for users to see bad translations. It's like you're not doing well done your work. Confirm us when implementing GNU gettext
Running into the problem with "term" again - which has 2 different meanings in German. Any progress on this?
(In reply to Katrin Fischer from comment #21) > Running into the problem with "term" again - which has 2 different meanings > in German. Any progress on this? translate script with msgctxt must do something like: #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/serials/member-search.tt:55 #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/patron_lists/list.tt:142 #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/members/member.tt:165 #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/patroncards/members-search.tt:77 msgctxt "Patron card" msgid "Card" msgstr "" #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/cataloguing/z3950_search.tt:162 #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/cataloguing/z3950_search.tt:177 #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/cataloguing/addbooks.tt:150 #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/cataloguing/addbooks.tt:193 #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/acqui/z3950_search.tt:172 #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/acqui/addorderiso2709.tt:196 #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/acqui/parcel.tt:289 #: intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/acqui/parcel.tt:437 msgctxt "ISBD Card" msgid "Card" msgstr "" All the files containing the word "Card" or "Term" must have useful comments like <!--Patron card--> and then the script must recognize the Disambiguation of contexts. I will try to study a case by case basis, but first i need to know how these scripts work Regards
I faced up another ambigous term: "Order" in acquisition "Order" as sort order - modification templates (and maybe more)
(In reply to paxed from comment #6) > "Title" - is this the title of a book? (usually it is) ...or does it mean > the name of a holiday? (as it is in the holidays calendar) There's also a title in the borrowers table -- as in "Mr.", "Mrs.", "Dr." etc. I don't think that this is likely to cause problems with translation; the context is entirely different, but it's annoying when you join borrowers to a query that already has "title" in the select statement, and suddenly need to qualify that...
> (In reply to paxed from comment #6) > > "Title" - is this the title of a book? (usually it is) ...or does it mean > > the name of a holiday? (as it is in the holidays calendar) > > There's also a title in the borrowers table -- as in "Mr.", "Mrs.", "Dr." > etc. I don't think that this is likely to cause problems with translation; > the context is entirely different, but it's annoying when you join borrowers > to a query that already has "title" in the select statement, and suddenly > need to qualify that... The problem is, that there is no context in translation. A string like "Title: " could mean all 3 things, but we'd like to translate it differently. This is currently not possible - you can only have one translation for identical strings.
(In reply to Barton Chittenden from comment #24) > (In reply to paxed from comment #6) > > "Title" - is this the title of a book? (usually it is) ...or does it mean > > the name of a holiday? (as it is in the holidays calendar) > > There's also a title in the borrowers table -- as in "Mr.", "Mrs.", "Dr." > etc. I don't think that this is likely to cause problems with translation; > the context is entirely different, but it's annoying when you join borrowers > to a query that already has "title" in the select statement, and suddenly > need to qualify that... In french we use the word "civilité". google translate says it can be translated to "civility". Is it a valid possibility ?
(In reply to Paul Poulain from comment #26) > (In reply to Barton Chittenden from comment #24) > > There's also a title in the borrowers table -- as in "Mr.", "Mrs.", "Dr." > > etc. I don't think that this is likely to cause problems with translation; > > the context is entirely different, but it's annoying when you join borrowers > > to a query that already has "title" in the select statement, and suddenly > > need to qualify that... > > In french we use the word "civilité". google translate says it can be > translated to "civility". Is it a valid possibility ? Unfortunately that doesn't work in English, but 'appelation' or 'honorific' might work (I feel like there's another common term besides title... it's on the tip of my tongue, but I can't seem to find it).
(In reply to Katrin Fischer from comment #25) > The problem is, that there is no context in translation. A string like > "Title: " could mean all 3 things, but we'd like to translate it > differently. This is currently not possible - you can only have one > translation for identical strings. Please have a look at bug 15395. It allows to attach context to a string, so the same string can be translated in different ways, depending on the context.
(In reply to Julian Maurice from comment #28) > (In reply to Katrin Fischer from comment #25) > > The problem is, that there is no context in translation. A string like > > "Title: " could mean all 3 things, but we'd like to translate it > > differently. This is currently not possible - you can only have one > > translation for identical strings. > > Please have a look at bug 15395. It allows to attach context to a string, so > the same string can be translated in different ways, depending on the > context. Just tested with Bug 15395, works great! See https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15395#c49
This could be a nice playground for someone playing with the new contextualisation features. For an example see: Bug 23983 - Contextualization of "Order" (verb) vs "Order" (noun) I'd suggest moving each case into a separate depending bug report.